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We welcome all new members and hope to see you around a lot!
Potential New 928 Owner..... Need Clarification Please
10 years 10 months ago #18522
by jerybak
Potential New 928 Owner..... Need Clarification Please was created by jerybak
So I am looking at a 1987 928, Vin: WP0JB0924HS860437 to purchase. Our club decoder indicates that this is a 928S4, however the carfax shows only a 928S on the vehicle info line, and there is no S4 identification behind Porsche embossment on the back bumper like I have seen generally on the S4's.
Please put mind at ease with this as I want to ensure there is no craziness going on before I drop some $ on this car, all body panel codes are good, motor looks like all other 32 valve 928 motors.......
Also some ideas on how to proceed would be great as the car has sat for 18 months or so without running. I have researched the maint records thru carfax and reached out to the dealership that performed all the PM Maint up to 58k miles. I spoke with the service manager and he indicated they cant recall details from that far back as they have converted to digital and all this work was done as hard copies but he said he can see the dates and miles and said it looked to be serviced regularly, like 2-3 times a year. The car now has 61k on it but has sat for 18months and not run, dead battery, low air on tire, etc.....
So prior to 100% purchasing it and under the advice from a local import service guy, we didn't try to start it, I just had it flatbed towed to his shop here in St Louis for a once over, I figure for $500 bucks or so he can get it towed, install a new battery and go thru it to see what I am getting into prior to final purchase. Anything specific I should have the service guy do, or not do.....he seems very knowledgable, and has done good work for me on my other vehicles in the past. He has already pushed for a new timing belt.....
Please put mind at ease with this as I want to ensure there is no craziness going on before I drop some $ on this car, all body panel codes are good, motor looks like all other 32 valve 928 motors.......
Also some ideas on how to proceed would be great as the car has sat for 18 months or so without running. I have researched the maint records thru carfax and reached out to the dealership that performed all the PM Maint up to 58k miles. I spoke with the service manager and he indicated they cant recall details from that far back as they have converted to digital and all this work was done as hard copies but he said he can see the dates and miles and said it looked to be serviced regularly, like 2-3 times a year. The car now has 61k on it but has sat for 18months and not run, dead battery, low air on tire, etc.....
So prior to 100% purchasing it and under the advice from a local import service guy, we didn't try to start it, I just had it flatbed towed to his shop here in St Louis for a once over, I figure for $500 bucks or so he can get it towed, install a new battery and go thru it to see what I am getting into prior to final purchase. Anything specific I should have the service guy do, or not do.....he seems very knowledgable, and has done good work for me on my other vehicles in the past. He has already pushed for a new timing belt.....
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10 years 10 months ago #18523
by GAZ
Replied by GAZ on topic Potential New 928 Owner..... Need Clarification Please
Don't worry about the "S4" badge - they were just stickers, and not all cars had them or have them anymore (were these dealer-installed?). Carfax is not perfect but it is a well known fact that there were only S4s sold in 1987. FWIW, Porsche does have an option code for "no model designation" or something along those lines, but I've seen enough 928s without the sticker and without that option code to confidentally assume it applies to different model badges - likely the "hard" Carrera badges on 911s and other models.
You are wise to worry about starting that car after so much time! The biggest issue is that the normally-lubricated engine components are now bone dry, and can be damaged significantly on start-up before they have been re-lubed. The second-biggest issue is the quality of the now-old fuel and engine oil.
Before rousing a dormant engine from its slumber, get a couple of quarts of Marvel Mystery Oil. Pull each spark plug and squirt a couple of fluid ounces of the stuff into each cylinder with a syringe, squeeze bulb, or a turkey baster (not the one from the kitchen). I've been advised to pour Marvel Mystery Oil over the valve train (by removing the valve covers) as well before starting a car that sat 15 years since all the parts would be bone dry - and I would advise you to do the same.... better proactive and safe than lazy and sorry. Turn the engine crank a couple-few of revolutions by hand (that is, by socket and rachet or breaker bar), plug the spark plug holes with balled-up rubber gloves or some non-shedding material to prevent ANYTHING from getting into the cylinders, and let sit overnight at least - a day or two even - periodically turning the engine a couple of times. Remove whatever you plugged the holes with, turn the engine by hand a couple more times, then replace the spark plugs (new plugs may be a good idea - I like Irridium plugs as my engine definitely runs stronger with them).
The fuel in the tank and in the fuel line is suspect at this point, and should ideally be drained and fresh fuel used to start the car.
Replace the engine oil, but the filter can wait until later.
Before starting, remove the fuel pump fuse and/or fuel pump relay (don't recall which there is) and crank the engine with the starter and fresh battery for a while (a minute or two) to circulate the oil throughout the engine. Next, jumper the fuel pump relay socket to force it to run and verify that there are no fuel leaks anywhere. I would strongly suggest bleeding the fuel lines and rails at this point to get all the old fuel out of the system.
Get a fire extinguisher ready to go, replace the fule pump relay, roll the car outside (there will be a lot of white smoke coming out of the tailpipe! You should even consider removing the catalytic converters to avoid oiling them up), then - finally - try to start it.
But don't get your hopes up - 928s do not like to sit in a garage undriven while all the other kids are out playing. They get angry, resentful, and they hold grudges. They express their displeasure by petulantly breaking themselves, like a dog left home alone too long that pees on the best rug in the house. All manner of other problems may have developed during the down-time, and masticulating mice know how to take their toll as well (ask me know I know...), so the car may not start at this point, or a lot of other problems will present themselves when it does.
Anyway, if it starts, immediately check the dash for any warning lights and check the engine for any oil leaks. Check to see if the A/C is operating.
Flexible brake and clutch lines tend to swell shut on the inside over time while appearing perfectly normal from the outside and the fluid will not flow freely, causing the brakes to hold after the pedal is released, or the clutch may be slow to close after releasing the pedal. Pump the brakes a few times to verify that the pedal is firm, press the clutch and have someone push the car to see if it rolls freely, then see if you can put it in gear and move it a few feet. Once the smoke clears from the exhaust, shut it down.
That is my take on what to do. The Rennlist 928 forum is the place to figure out how to do it. A decent mechanic should be able to do most of it without a lot of help. I would strongly consider getting more input on what to do from the Rennlist 928 technical forum. They have way more collective knowledge and experience than I do.
Lastly, consider having everyone's liability spelled out in writing, in advance - something could go horribly awry (like a fuel leak and resulting engine fire) and that's not the time to decide whose problem it is.
GOOD LUCK!!!
You are wise to worry about starting that car after so much time! The biggest issue is that the normally-lubricated engine components are now bone dry, and can be damaged significantly on start-up before they have been re-lubed. The second-biggest issue is the quality of the now-old fuel and engine oil.
Before rousing a dormant engine from its slumber, get a couple of quarts of Marvel Mystery Oil. Pull each spark plug and squirt a couple of fluid ounces of the stuff into each cylinder with a syringe, squeeze bulb, or a turkey baster (not the one from the kitchen). I've been advised to pour Marvel Mystery Oil over the valve train (by removing the valve covers) as well before starting a car that sat 15 years since all the parts would be bone dry - and I would advise you to do the same.... better proactive and safe than lazy and sorry. Turn the engine crank a couple-few of revolutions by hand (that is, by socket and rachet or breaker bar), plug the spark plug holes with balled-up rubber gloves or some non-shedding material to prevent ANYTHING from getting into the cylinders, and let sit overnight at least - a day or two even - periodically turning the engine a couple of times. Remove whatever you plugged the holes with, turn the engine by hand a couple more times, then replace the spark plugs (new plugs may be a good idea - I like Irridium plugs as my engine definitely runs stronger with them).
The fuel in the tank and in the fuel line is suspect at this point, and should ideally be drained and fresh fuel used to start the car.
Replace the engine oil, but the filter can wait until later.
Before starting, remove the fuel pump fuse and/or fuel pump relay (don't recall which there is) and crank the engine with the starter and fresh battery for a while (a minute or two) to circulate the oil throughout the engine. Next, jumper the fuel pump relay socket to force it to run and verify that there are no fuel leaks anywhere. I would strongly suggest bleeding the fuel lines and rails at this point to get all the old fuel out of the system.
Get a fire extinguisher ready to go, replace the fule pump relay, roll the car outside (there will be a lot of white smoke coming out of the tailpipe! You should even consider removing the catalytic converters to avoid oiling them up), then - finally - try to start it.
But don't get your hopes up - 928s do not like to sit in a garage undriven while all the other kids are out playing. They get angry, resentful, and they hold grudges. They express their displeasure by petulantly breaking themselves, like a dog left home alone too long that pees on the best rug in the house. All manner of other problems may have developed during the down-time, and masticulating mice know how to take their toll as well (ask me know I know...), so the car may not start at this point, or a lot of other problems will present themselves when it does.
Anyway, if it starts, immediately check the dash for any warning lights and check the engine for any oil leaks. Check to see if the A/C is operating.
Flexible brake and clutch lines tend to swell shut on the inside over time while appearing perfectly normal from the outside and the fluid will not flow freely, causing the brakes to hold after the pedal is released, or the clutch may be slow to close after releasing the pedal. Pump the brakes a few times to verify that the pedal is firm, press the clutch and have someone push the car to see if it rolls freely, then see if you can put it in gear and move it a few feet. Once the smoke clears from the exhaust, shut it down.
That is my take on what to do. The Rennlist 928 forum is the place to figure out how to do it. A decent mechanic should be able to do most of it without a lot of help. I would strongly consider getting more input on what to do from the Rennlist 928 technical forum. They have way more collective knowledge and experience than I do.
Lastly, consider having everyone's liability spelled out in writing, in advance - something could go horribly awry (like a fuel leak and resulting engine fire) and that's not the time to decide whose problem it is.
GOOD LUCK!!!
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10 years 10 months ago #18529
by jerybak
Replied by jerybak on topic Potential New 928 Owner..... Need Clarification Please
Ok did all that good stuff.....NO FIRES!!!! got the car cranking, looks like a bad fuel pump as the tech had to shoot brake cleaner in air intake so car would star/run and idle.
I think I may have him blow the fuel lines, replace fuel pump, fuel regulator & starter as we had to short it to get it to crank but have had no issues since the first shorting. Really thinking of having him do all new injectors also...thoughts? I see some Bosch remanufactured ones I am thinking of grabbing...see info below
Set of 8, Genuine Bosch 4-Hole Spray Fuel Injectors
Brand Name: Genuine Bosch
Flow Rate: 21lbs (@ 43.5psi fuel pressure) "FLOW BALANCED"
Impedance: High Impedance
Connector type : EV1 Plug & Play
I think I may have him blow the fuel lines, replace fuel pump, fuel regulator & starter as we had to short it to get it to crank but have had no issues since the first shorting. Really thinking of having him do all new injectors also...thoughts? I see some Bosch remanufactured ones I am thinking of grabbing...see info below
Set of 8, Genuine Bosch 4-Hole Spray Fuel Injectors
Brand Name: Genuine Bosch
Flow Rate: 21lbs (@ 43.5psi fuel pressure) "FLOW BALANCED"
Impedance: High Impedance
Connector type : EV1 Plug & Play
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10 years 10 months ago #18530
by GAZ
Replied by GAZ on topic Potential New 928 Owner..... Need Clarification Please
Yay!!! Any day without an engine fire is a good day...
I don't know much about new vs cleaned injectors as I have not had much experience in this area, other than having had mine cleaned and flow tested during my intake refresh several years ago.
Good luck with it! Keep us posted...
I don't know much about new vs cleaned injectors as I have not had much experience in this area, other than having had mine cleaned and flow tested during my intake refresh several years ago.
Good luck with it! Keep us posted...
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10 years 9 months ago #18539
by Old Dude
Replied by Old Dude on topic Potential New 928 Owner..... Need Clarification Please
Did you check the fuel pump fuse? Could also be the fuel pump relay. Fuses sometimes get corroded when sitting and need cleaning.
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10 years 9 months ago #18570
by jerybak
Replied by jerybak on topic Potential New 928 Owner..... Need Clarification Please
so far so good, been a daily driver for 10 days or so, drove it for about 2hrs straight on local highways stopping about every 15 mins at gas stations to check for any issues, all was good. So as a recap this car sat for about 18 months, outside in midwest, items replaced so far are as follows: battery, fuel filter, fuel pump, small fuel line from tank to filter, starter, one passenger side fuel, damper, oil/filter, oil pressure switch & sending unit, hood & hatch struts, All this got the car running as it is now, I have ran 2 cans of 44k decarbonizer through it currently. flappy works, starts good, idols a little rough but bad at all, a non car person would not notice, transmission may need some fluid as it really kicks when I out it in gear, like damn near chirps the tires in the garage.
Car has 60k miles on it, I these have parts and planning on the following this weekend: steel brake lines, clean CE panel & install all new fuses & replays, fuel pressure gauge, new window,sunroof, wiper switches.
Wondering what I should do next, any help would be great,
Car has 60k miles on it, I these have parts and planning on the following this weekend: steel brake lines, clean CE panel & install all new fuses & replays, fuel pressure gauge, new window,sunroof, wiper switches.
Wondering what I should do next, any help would be great,
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